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Old 09-13-2007, 11:04 PM   #1
WaScubaDude
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Isn't Nitrox, trimix and diving below 130ft really commercial diving without the $$$$

I am back to diving after two decades off. What is now called "tech" diving is what we called commercial diving.

I put together an analogy that goes like this:
In rock climbing people who hike the trail and look at the view are like snorkelers...you could get hurt but not likey.
People who top rope into bomb proof protection are like OW divers, you can get hurt but usually because you made a big mistake.
People who lead climb and set pro are like Advanced open water or penetration divers. One good f-up and you will get hurt or die.
People who free climb without pro or rope are like "tech" divers, very calculated very smart, and it's only a matter of time before they die.

If you think I am absurd just google "Johny long blades" or read the scuba death board. "Tech" divers are some of the very best divers no doubt but also the ones making calculations about what could have been done, when the truth is; diving is dangerous and "tech" diving is very dangerous.

Who is off their rocker? You or me?

Last edited by WaScubaDude : 09-14-2007 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:27 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by WaScubaDude View Post
I am back to diving after two decades off. What is now called "tech" diving is what we called commercial diving.

I put together an analogy that goes like this:
In rock climbing people who hike the trail and look at the view are like snorkelers...you could get hurt but not likey.
People who top rope into bomb proof protection are like OW divers, you can get hurt but usually because you made a big mistake.
People who lead climb and set pro are like Advanced open water or penetration divers. One good f-up and you will get hurt or die.
People who free climb without pro or rope are like "tech" divers, very calculated very smart, and it's only a matter of time before they die.

If you think I am absurd just google "Johny long blades" or read the scuba death board. "Tech" divers are some of the very best divers no doubt but also the ones making calculations about what could have been done, when the truth is; diving is dangerous and "tech" diving is very dangerous.

Who is off their rocker? You or me?
First, commercial diving differs from rec/tec diving in the goal. Specifically, tec diving is done at great personal expense for pure recreation and enjoyment. Commercial diving is done for a paycheck.

I think you miss the a bit more on the analogies as well. Tec divers are very risk aware, more so than your average advanced OW diver. Your average tec diver will plan for and mitigate as many risks as possible on a given dive, even if its only to 130'. BTW, any real penetration diving is tec not rec.

Here's another set of analogies:

Walk in the park = snorkeling
day trip hikers = OW
Backpackers = AOW/Rescue
expeditions = Tec

Essentially, with each level, more complications and planning are required. Risk also increases but methods of mitigation are introduced as well. Ultimately, its up to each individual to determine their personal risk tolerance.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:58 PM   #3
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Much better analogie Cavediver
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Old 09-17-2007, 02:10 PM   #4
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I like the simpler analogie, but I am not sure if it conveys all the complexities it should. How do you take into account the dangers of mixed gas dives, multiple mixed gas dives with planned deco, mixed gas penetration or deep dives etc.
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:11 PM   #5
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I think things have changed alot in the 20 years you have been out of the water.

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Old 09-17-2007, 08:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by WaScubaDude View Post
I like the simpler analogie, but I am not sure if it conveys all the complexities it should. How do you take into account the dangers of mixed gas dives, multiple mixed gas dives with planned deco, mixed gas penetration or deep dives etc.
The complexities are just that, complexities. There is a reason some divers spend up to 10 times as much time planning a dive as doing the dive. With more complications come more oppertunities for problems and therefore more risk.

Now, for dangers. Essentially, they all are the same. You can't breathe water so you have to make sure you have something working to breathe. You can't overstay a limit without hitting a bailout plan (be it NDL or planned deco) and hitting a bailout means increasing risk. Divers need to know the procedures to properly use all of their equipment and its bailouts, be it CESA or lost deco gas. And last but not least, your in a foriegn environment, your instincts work against you and you have to control fear, anxiety, exitement and adreline to maintain mental control and thus ensure your safety. Thats it, no difference in core needs, just the level of complexity.

Again, nitrox, trimix, staged deco, rebreathers, overheads and excessive depth are only tools and environments to dive. The knowledege, techniques and procedures for mitigating risks exist and are taught for operating in these environments.

In my opinion, some of the dives I've done to 130-150 are safer than many 'deep' dives done by 'rec' divers purely based on extra equipment protocols and procedures I use. (and I likely surfaced with a lower N2 saturation as well)

Last edited by in_cavediver : 09-17-2007 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 09-18-2007, 02:22 AM   #7
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I think things have changed alot in the 20 years you have been out of the water.

Aussie
Its funny because some things have changed and some have not. I feel like I have learned alot from the Q & A on this board and other research that I have done. If I sound a cautionary note don't take it personaly. My question and the discussion that followed is part of my learning and I trust will be part of others learning as well. For me I am restling with the risks inherent in this sport. Finding ways to enjoy the sport and live to dive another day.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:39 AM   #8
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Aussie[/quote]

For me I am restling with the risks inherent in this sport. Finding ways to enjoy the sport and live to dive another day.[/quote]

I think everybody does that,whether they are taking an OW class or extending the line in Wakulla.

IMHO if you are scared of a particular dive then you should not do it. Mild apprehension is O.K. and is probably a good thing as it keeps you focussed,but once that crosses over into fear you need to rethink what you are doing.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_cavediver View Post
Walk in the park = snorkeling
day trip hikers = OW
Backpackers = AOW/Rescue
expeditions = Tec
Nice analogy.... I like it :-)
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:30 PM   #10
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In the end, which group, commercial or tek divers have a greater fatality rate? I think you will find that Tek divers die more often. The main reasons for this is mainly that both have similar hazards, and complexity but the Commercial Diver has automatic safe guards, there are OSHA standards that have to be met at the dive site, recompression facilities are usually right there on site and a paid surface crew to keep an eye on things. Also there is more safety technology involved, like UW communications systems and communications links to the top side that are just out of reach financially out of reach to the TEK diver.

Commercial divers usually have a far larger safety net in which to work.
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